Lucati is Leading By Example: Elevated Frequencies Episode #9

Olivia: Well, Lucati, thanks for joining me. It's very nice to talk to you.

LUCATI: Absolutely happy to be here.

Olivia: You are no stranger to Twitter and something I saw you posted on Twitter today was if you admire somebody, don't be a fan, be an interviewer. So that is actually exactly what I'm doing right now.

LUCATI: Yeah, you're pretty much nailed it right there. Yeah,

Olivia: We're-

LUCATI: I actually, I love that quote because a lot of times when I meet fans or I'm a fan of someone else, I really, I want to know how they got there and like, what's your favorite plugin? What's the little trick that you know that no one else does?

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: And sometimes a fan will get a little too excited and not give you that time of day. So yeah, I thought it was good advice.

Olivia: That's

LUCATI: Sorry, I

Olivia: great

LUCATI: cut you

Olivia: advice.

LUCATI: off.

Olivia: That's okay. Well, you have plenty of good advice on Twitter and I'm gonna try to not make this a thing where I just read your tweets and

LUCATI: Hahaha.

Olivia: make you explain them because I don't think that's good like interview practice. But I'm so excited to have you because you just gave me a wealth of content to go off of. You really put it out there, what you're feeling and you speak your mind. So before we even talk about all your opinions, I wanna ask you this. There are a lot of people out there in the music profession, whatever, any industry where you're like public facing who are very afraid to be vocal. Why is that not you?

LUCATI: I think an artist has a responsibility. I mean, you're already doing so much to be vulnerable by putting your art out there. And I mean, it's a piece of you, whether you like it or not. So I feel like all the people that I look up to that are artists, and I'm like, God, I feel something when I hear you talk, or when I see your art, or I hear your music. And it inspires me to do the same, like Banksy. I know it almost sounds cliche to like him because he's so undeniable, but like he's poetic in everything he does. And it makes me go like, I need to say what I wanna say because I have a voice that is worth sharing and a unique opinion. And I think everyone honestly has the same. It's just some people have the ability to tap in and some people don't have that ability because they're stuck in the rat race, unfortunately. So I was lucky enough to... get out of the rat race and kind of keep the flame alive and give it another go.

Olivia: And is that something, because I think this is especially pertinent to people who might be starting off their journeys, whether it's as an artist or whatever in their industry, I think that's when they're most afraid to be opinionated because they don't want to ruffle any feathers. So is this, is this who you've always been? Have you always just been very forward and sharing what's on your mind or when, you know, as you were building your career, was that a consideration or you're just like, fuck it, I'm just going to be me.

LUCATI: I've always been outspoken. I'm the older brother of, um, it's just me and my, my younger brother, Javier, uh, who was also DJ Dateless. Um, but my dad wasn't in the picture for very much of my life. Um, he was kind of in and out. My mom and dad would get together again and then it'd fall out again. So I kind of took on this role of like, well, I guess I'm my own dad in a way. And I took care of my brother in the same sense. So I felt like I had to stand up to some adversity. And it gave me the confidence to kind of be like, I don't feel good if I don't say the thing that's on my mind. It feels like I'm gonna like explode inside. Like, so it doesn't feel good to keep it in. So, and I feel like I have a way with words that I'm not like vicious or mean or do it. I don't come from that angle either. So when I say controversial things, I'm trying to either make you laugh, have some fun, or do that and make you kind of think like, wait, why is that? Why is every DJ just talking about their flight delays every single day? Like no one cares, no one cares. And they know, they know, but they don't have anything else because they're scared to say the thing. And that's what you're touching on, so.

Olivia: Yeah, I think it's really admirable. And I want to talk about your music too. It's especially interesting that you and your brother are both DJs. I did know that. But it's just really refreshing to see you be vulnerable, like you said, and unapologetic about who you are. We are lacking that in the world in general, but in my opinion, especially in this scene where it's still a... a popularity contest, how cool are you, who do you know, where are you going? Oh, you know, and it's just a bunch of bullshit. And I think it comes

LUCATI: percent.

Olivia: with age. You kind of, you kind of learn like, okay, this is, this is all stupid. So it's just really nice to see when an artist, you know, is leading the charge on people. What you're doing, in my opinion, is you're demanding authenticity from those around you because you are authentic.

LUCATI: I'm so happy you say that because I literally tell my manager and my team, like, I just want to be me. I want to be authentic. I think that's the wave. You see it in comedy. You see it in movies. Like you can feel the fakeness. It's not something's off. It's like looking at a face that's AI. You're

Olivia: Thank

LUCATI: like,

Olivia: you.

LUCATI: dude, something's weird here. So when you feel the authenticity and the genuineness and the vulnerability of a human, It allows you to connect in another way. And I think that's important. It's so lacking, like you said. So I take it upon myself to kind of lead by example. I mean, some days I go a little crazy, but for the most part, I mean well, like I'm not trying to be bad, you

Olivia: Yeah,

LUCATI: know?

Olivia: no, I never, I don't think anybody's ever gotten that vibe from you. You create,

LUCATI: I would disagree, but

Olivia: really? I mean, you create

LUCATI: no. Were

Olivia: conversations.

LUCATI: you there for the, sorry, were you there for the opener, the opener tweet that I did?

Olivia: Yes I was.

LUCATI: I got some nice DMs from that one.

Olivia: Really? But from your peers or just from

LUCATI: No,

Olivia: people

LUCATI: like,

Olivia: that don't matter?

LUCATI: I mean, they matter, but they don't know what they're talking about because they don't know what the context is. Like I'm being silly and a little serious, but I'm kind of trying to teach a lesson to people that are like trying to do this right. Cause I fell in love with this art form in a very like fortunate time. I went to USC and I grew up in the blog area, the blog house era with like Skrillex, Justice, you know, all the names, Busy P. And I saw the way that they would build the night. And it was so romantic to me. You go to the club early because you don't want to miss the opener. And the opener is taking you on the journey and handing it off to the headliner and it just crescendos in a way that you could never make a movie like that. You could never make anything. No amusement park relates. So I want that for other people. And when I completely see the opposite where everyone's just trying to be famous. or they think it's their time to shine and that's how it is, it's a competition. That was my remark, it was like, guys, we're a team. I'm an opener sometimes too. You gotta build the night. It's better that way. You're already tired by the time the headliner's there, he's not gonna have a good time, you're not gonna have a good time. It's simple. But yeah, I digress.

Olivia: I agree. I mean, you're the expert in this subject matter, but as a spectator, I couldn't agree more. And I think that it pays in dividends when you are an opener and you do kind of play your role. I think that like good karma comes back to you too, when everybody plays their part in making, you know, doing their job, which is to curate an amazing time

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: that can only come back to you in a positive way.

LUCATI: I would honestly say if an opener does a good job, it's way more impressive than a headliner. Headlining is easy. You play the popular songs, you play your hits, but

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: opening is like you have to win the crowd over right away and then you have to keep them. And not only that, you're increasing the energy just slightly, whether it's increasing the tempo or the style of music. It's a beautiful art. And it's also something that I think... and it needs to be here, it needs to be revered. I have a conversation with John Summit about this and he's like, dude, it's crazy. It's almost like the people that play before him at shows, they're trying to impress him, as if he's watching them and going like, oh my God, that guy's the next fucking guy. And that's not how it works. Not only is that not happening, we don't like that. That's not gonna get you our attention. If you do it well, it's like, It's very, you stand out so much more. So yeah.

Olivia: That's very, very interesting. I think a lot of DJs would find that information valuable. It's also hard, and I know you have a lot of thoughts on this, when we are literally curating our lives, our professions, everything to having a moment online.

LUCATI: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: It's like, how do you make a 60 second moment so you can go viral or

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: be the next TikTok song or whatever? And... I am guilty of this as someone trying to build my own brand.

LUCATI: Yeah, we all are. I think so.

Olivia: It's good to be aware of it, but how do you be conscious and not let that rule your art and your craft?

LUCATI: Um, I think that's the thing. It's like, yeah, at a certain time in your career, you focus on that because everyone's telling you that you need to, or you see your friend like going on tour in a visa and he blew up because of it. And what you don't seem to realize is that when you talk to those people, they, they are in a tough situation. They're not ready for that. Excuse me. And they get pushed into the limelight way too early. And now they have to basically learn all this new system that they have to carry around that they're not prepared for because it's happened so fast. So luckily for me, um, my career has kind of been very steadily increasing. So as I grow, I learn and I get to kind of learn how to do this with longevity in mind, I kind of gave up on the whole viral thing. If it happens, it happens. But. Honestly, I don't really want it to happen either because it's going to bring in a crowd that only wants you for that one thing. I'd rather have fans that know my entire discography and they all come to the show rather than, oh boo, you didn't play the hit song. I'm not here to play the hit song. Let me tell you, I'm playing the song that you don't know you love and I'm trying to make you fall in love with it by presenting it in a certain way. So

Olivia: I also think that there's a sense of peace, internal peace, when you know that you are an artist building for longevity or you're a person building for longevity because it takes the pressure off. So like you said, those viral moments, if they happen, they happen, but they're not your goal. So like for me, when the most important thing to me when I'm putting content out there, consistently myself. Consistency wins the day.

LUCATI: Yes.

Olivia: And that's what has longevity. But people who, like I think about all the TikTok stars who literally like did a couple dances, got super famous. Now what are they doing? You can't do that forever. How do you scale a dance? How do you scale playing the same fricking song? I mean, I love the songs that got popular on TikTok or whatever, but how do you scale that?

LUCATI: Yeah, I think it's like, it's just an issue of like, no one knows what's gonna go viral as much as there are like crazy marketing schemes that go into big labels, like

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: they'll pay TikTokers to like use the new song in a dance video, stuff like that. But ultimately, I think they went viral by mistake and now they're stuck with a life they weren't ready for and now they have people demanding the same thing. I love the people that grow and they grow into it. Like Theo Vaughn, that guy went viral and he kind of looked like he was suffering a little bit but then he kind of readjusted, realized what was important and just kind of narrowed his focus and did comedy only. You know, he didn't stretch himself thin. He didn't create a t-shirt brand or skincare. Like

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: just do the thing you're good at that you enjoy. Fuck the fans. You, you need to enjoy it because you need to go to sleep at night

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: and doing this for other people will never get you anywhere. You got to do it for you. It sounds weird because it's kind of sounds selfish, but if you do it for you, you're, you're going to do it to a very high ability. And then the fans. that like that will come,

Olivia: Right.

LUCATI: you know?

Olivia: You find your people

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: and you can't pour from an empty cup. And so

LUCATI: No.

Olivia: if you're saying, don't do a skincare brand, don't do

LUCATI: Hehehe

Olivia: all this at once. And I think that's like what people think they need to do.

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: All of a sudden they're growing and they're like, oh, I have to branch out and do all these things. And if everything is important, then nothing is important.

LUCATI: 100%. They compare themselves to other people that are doing well in their eyes. You

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: know? And then when you really find out how the music industry, any industry, how it really works, you go, oh, that's how they do it. Right.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: And then it kind of that also helps kind of alleviate the pressure because you're like, oh, OK, well, I'm not in that situation. I don't need to do that.

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: I'm being vague, but yeah, you can

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: ask me what it is.

Olivia: Now I catch your drift.

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: So talk to me about how in spite of all of this, all the bullshit that comes with it, how did you build your brand? And I especially want to know, because your only brother is a DJ too, so that

LUCATI: Mm.

Olivia: had to be interesting. I want to know how you kind of built your own thing and made it different than him.

LUCATI: Absolutely. So I'll give you the short story. So I went to USC and got a business degree. I was the first one to graduate from my family. So it was a big deal. It was important to me. I thought I was doing the right thing. School is always easy. But during, during like my education there, I got involved with like. dance music because Hard Events, which was Gary Richards at the time, was throwing raves right across the street at the shrine. And I would hear it, I'd be like, what the fuck is that? That's crazy, so loud. I'd pick up a flyer off the ground, like look at the lineup, start looking up the names, and I go, dude, this is fucking sick. And I ended up creating a blog where you could, it was a time where you could kind of share no reprimands or anything like that. So I became friends with Trevor Bones from God of Dance Dirty. There was another one called Kid City, Chemical Jump. Like these, we all were sharing music with each other as well as the general public. And I actually got invited to open the side room at the Avalon for one of the nights that God of Dance Dirty was doing. And they told me, Hey, why don't you like throw a competition to have the opener? open for you. And so I did. And I basically asked the general public like, yo, give me a 30 minute mix and your best original record. Let me see. And out of that, I actually picked this guy, Kevin Chapman, who's Sunburn now. And we actually hit it off, started making music together. And we actually became pretty popular pretty quickly. And it was just EDM, right? Like data life, like bootlegs of... this is how we do it, like, you know, cool at the time, but a little interesting now if I look back, but we linked up with the guys at LED in San Diego and we became residents at Voyer, which is no longer a club in the Gaslamp district. And it all was happening so fast. We opened for Skrillex, Alex Metric, Data Life, like Fetty LeGrand, Porter Robinson. We got signed to Chris Lake's record label that was called Rising at the time. Deadmau5 was opening with that song for his whole tour. We

Olivia: One health.

LUCATI: were about to just pop off, right? And then it got to the point where I had to finish college. I was in my last year and I kinda was like, I needed to spend some time doing this or else I'm not gonna be able to finish. I told Kevin and he was like, oh, no problem, man. And then... One day he's like, hey, we need to talk. And then we went to have a dinner. He's like, yo, I don't think your heart's into this anymore. I think we should go separate ways. I was like kind of side, just sideswiped because it didn't feel that way to me, but it is what it is, right? So I kind of took that as like, all right, well, that didn't work out. I'm going to do the rat race. And I had several jobs that were of no interest to me. Like, Basically, I was a quality assurance manager for an airplane company, car dealer. Anyways, I digress.

Olivia: No way.

LUCATI: Yeah, so I did all that. And in that, I taught my brother everything. And he saw what happened to me. Kind of gave him this vengeful spirit of like, no one does that to my brother kind of a thing. Cause I felt slighted, I'll be honest, but it was meant to be. But nonetheless, I taught him everything I knew. And I would play around with Ableton and stuff like that. And then got to the point where I was fed up with my job and my brother's getting pretty good. And I was like, whoa, shit, dude, you're onto something.

Olivia: Was that hard? That had to be hard. You had all the success and now you're working for a quality assurance and now your brother's getting good. I can't even imagine what was going through your head.

LUCATI: It was not hard in like a jealous way. It was hard because it was like, I guess life is telling me this isn't for me, even though it felt

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: like it was. And it was hard to like pull myself and be like, no, it is dude. I had nothing to tell me that, right?

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: So.

Olivia: And did you, sorry to interrupt, but

LUCATI: No, no,

Olivia: before

LUCATI: go ahead.

Olivia: I forget, did you feel pressure to finish school because you were the first in your family to graduate?

LUCATI: Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I mean, I took loans out, but I did get a scholarship. And

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: so it felt important to me and then to my parents, you know, I didn't, I wanted to make them proud, but so I saw him getting better and then he got signed to Dirty Bird. And it was like amazing because it was a big record, did well, and they started getting invited to these shows that... Claude would throw and basically I kind of started falling in love with it again and he inspired me to kind of really spend some time and every time I would be at my lunch hour I'd come home I lived really close and I'd work on Ableton for an hour bounce a song listen to it make the changes come back do it again so I was like addicted I was back in like the mode of like oh my god this is so much fun and

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: then one year later I get signed to Dirty Bird So

Olivia: it out.

LUCATI: yeah, it kind of, we helped each other. And it's cool, yeah, it's a cool story.

Olivia: That's

LUCATI: Ha

Olivia: so

LUCATI: ha ha.

Olivia: cool. That's such a cool backstory. I have a lot of questions, but I want to know because you, I can't really tell. How do you feel about college education? It sounds like there's a little bit of, not like, I don't want to say, you

LUCATI: You can

Olivia: feel,

LUCATI: say it. Ha

Olivia: well, I can't

LUCATI: ha

Olivia: even think

LUCATI: ha.

Olivia: of the right word. It seems like you're kind of pissed that... You know, you felt the pressure to do that. And I mean, this is coming from somebody who has a useless master's degree across

LUCATI: Mm.

Olivia: from me, okay, I've done absolutely zero with, with that degree. So I'm,

LUCATI: Yeah,

Olivia: I feel you.

LUCATI: I feel the same way. I think they'll, we'll talk about college, but the whole education system is just bizarre to me. Looking back in hindsight, I don't remember anything. Like,

Olivia: Same.

LUCATI: but I got through it. I just got good at taking tests. That's what it felt like.

Olivia: Well, that's how they,

LUCATI: That's it.

Olivia: that's what they do though. That's what

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: they want. Like it's built for that. And it's, and it's crazy. I was having this conversation. I'm a consultant. That's like my main thing, right? And I was consulting my client about basically millennials and them as a persona. I'm like, listen, they learn everything on YouTube. You

LUCATI: Mm.

Olivia: got to talk to them differently than, you know, you're talking to somebody who's been in business for 20 years, an entrepreneur for 20 years, because they don't give a shit about your prestigious degree. No, you're not, you're not going to relate on that because

LUCATI: No.

Olivia: by the time you get out of school that shit is not even relevant anymore.

LUCATI: 100%. And you could argue it never was because you have armchair theorists like saying, well, this is what's important in the real world while they're not in the real world.

Olivia: No,

LUCATI: And

Olivia: it's

LUCATI: then you,

Olivia: a vacuum.

LUCATI: yeah, it's crazy.

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: It doesn't make any sense.

Olivia: And

LUCATI: I don't

Olivia: it's

LUCATI: get

Olivia: like,

LUCATI: it.

Olivia: it's crazy because it costs so much money and

LUCATI: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: you still, so I'm like a big, this is total aside, I'm a big proponent of apprenticeships because it's like you get paid to work, hands-on learning, like that's

LUCATI: Yeah?

Olivia: an actual, that's how Europe does it.

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: And like just from the technology aspect alone, because I used to be a TV news reporter, I was learning on fucking cameras. that like have not been used since the 90s. You know what I mean? And then

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: I get out and I'm completely ill prepared for the world and the only people I think who got value out of their college education, I mean, I'm sure there's whatever, but it's like the people who already had ends because their mom or dad works somewhere

LUCATI: Yep.

Olivia: and that's like, you know what I mean? Like,

LUCATI: No,

Olivia: so

LUCATI: 100%.

Olivia: what are we all like playing a role in this scam?

LUCATI: I don't know, dude. I'm waiting for the revolution myself.

Olivia: Yeah, I know. That's why I

LUCATI: You

Olivia: felt

LUCATI: let

Olivia: comfortable.

LUCATI: me know when it happens. I will be there. Yeah.

Olivia: I feel like you'll be in the front with a torch. And that's why I've seen you talk about this. It's just crazy because education is so important, but the

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: way that they do it is so antiquated. But every step in your journey has its place.

LUCATI: Right,

Olivia: And

LUCATI: right.

Olivia: for you, who knows how... You made two separate careers, you and your friend, you and Sunburn. Who knows if you would have been as successful if you stayed together?

LUCATI: Right, yeah. Yeah, I'm very happy that happened, which is weird, because yeah, you don't think that at the time.

Olivia: course.

LUCATI: One more point to the education thing. I think the older I get, the more I realize the best way to learn is to do whatever it is, right? Obviously there's things that like becoming a doctor, yeah, you need to know the manual. But like, when it comes to like, I wanna start a business. Start the business. Go find out how to make a t-shirt. Go learn graphic design. The more you can learn yourself and not right away like subcontract is the best. Like in the beginning as an artist, you don't know how to master your own stuff and that's a big hurdle. And then you realize that that's not even the most important part. It's the mixing of the levels of the volumes. And In the beginning, it's so daunting that you go, well, I'm just gonna send it out. I'm just gonna let someone else take care of that. But then you realize that's part of the artistic process itself. Like, you send it out and then the guy sends it back and it's not the same. It's not the art that you made. So yeah, just do everything yourself. And it's gonna suck for a little bit, but it's worth

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: it.

Olivia: And being armed with that knowledge, even if it's at a basic level, helps protect you because you

LUCATI: 100%.

Olivia: don't know. I would never just send something out without knowing, having a basic understanding. I'm not a graphic designer, but I know

LUCATI: But,

Olivia: what looks like shit. You know what

LUCATI: yeah.

Olivia: I mean? And I've tinkered around, I did Canva long enough on my own before I hired somebody to create the logo for my podcast, for example.

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: So it's really, I think you're protecting yourself when you're taking the time to learn those things. And it's so easy now and knowledge isn't behind a paywall anymore. It's free. You can

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: cobble shit together from all different platforms and

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: so there's not really an excuse.

LUCATI: I learned so much from TikTok and it's vilified by like people in suits that are angry for some reason.

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: You know, like when they were doing that trial, I was like, dude, you want me to edit my videos in Instagram? Have you fucking used that garbage? Like it's trash.

Olivia: I tweeted something about that too. I'm like, Instagram, you want to be TikTok so

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: fucking bad, but you don't replicate the only, like the best part about TikTok,

LUCATI: 100%.

Olivia: which is how easy it is to edit. I know, I know. That is the most annoying. That's where I built my audience because I'm very much like you. Like I've never been shy about stating my opinions, which by the way, change. I've

LUCATI: Yeah,

Olivia: had opinions change and

LUCATI: which

Olivia: I'm

LUCATI: is

Olivia: not

LUCATI: good.

Olivia: afraid to say, right,

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: that's growth. And I've said it. to,

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: out loud to my audience. That's where I

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: have my largest audience by a long shot because I just get on there and I start talking about what's on

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: my mind. And it's crazy because that's what you'd argue they don't want us to have. They don't want us to have the ability to just be authentic and share

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: unadulterated, filtered knowledge.

LUCATI: 100%. And it's crazy because like, it doesn't even have to be political or controversial. Just the fact that you're being authentic feels kind of like, ooh, what are you doing? Like you're just getting out of line here, buddy.

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: You can't

Olivia: Right.

LUCATI: say that, dude. You can't say the thing. And it's so obvious to me that you have to say the thing, you

Olivia: Yep.

LUCATI: know? It's all, you touch on something that you change your mind. I think it's so important to be honestly like, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. You're right. Or you know what? I changed my mind. That's not what I think anymore. And that

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: should be okay. And it feels

Olivia: Yep.

LUCATI: like it's being penalized in today's world. And like, it's crazy, dude.

Olivia: What people don't realize is when you say that before someone can say to you, oh, well, I thought you, you're literally taking the power away from them.

LUCATI: Mm-hmm.

Olivia: You know, you're taking the power away from people who wanna try to like put you in a gotcha situation.

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: And so I'm always the first to admit. I will say that, and I don't know how you feel about this. Just like you posted about like, nobody gives a fuck about your flight delay. I have now... As I've gotten older, matured a little bit, thought to myself, do I really need to post this? Is this something that like can create community, make people reflect, do a good thing, or am I just bitching just a bitch? And I've definitely

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: edited, even if it's a valid point, I've edited

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: my approach a little bit. I've refined my approach and I think that's helped me a lot build my brand because sometimes you see people. It sounds like you and I care about a lot of the same issues. I think there's a lot of people who also care about these issues, but all they do is bitch.

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: They don't talk about it in a constructive way. And that's a complete turnoff.

LUCATI: I agree. I think I came to that realization myself. If I have something kind of negative to say, like a critique of this thing, why do we do it this way?

Olivia: Mm-hmm.

LUCATI: I always write it and then I rewrite it and I go, how do I say this in the positive? Like, you know, like, wouldn't it be better if this or, you know, like, and it helps me be a little bit more positive too because I don't want to live in that world, but we all have those thoughts. Um, yeah,

Olivia: Yes.

LUCATI: it's constructive.

Olivia: Yeah. It's, it's great advice because you're just going to turn people off from

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: wanting to engage

LUCATI: I mean,

Olivia: with

LUCATI: I

Olivia: you.

LUCATI: do it. I unfollow right away. I'm like, dude,

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: this is the fifth tweet. You haven't posted a meme. Wasn't funny. I don't care anymore. You are my friend in real life, dude, but I can't do it. Can't look at that. Sorry.

Olivia: You would follow your friends?

LUCATI: I mute them, but they don't know that. I'm sure they do the same to me.

Olivia: Wait, wait, I want to know one person who's muted. This is going to be the viral TikTok moment.

LUCATI: Um, I better say the most important guy. No. Um, who do I mute? Uh, okay. I'll say this because I know she's done it to me as well. I've muted Vanessa sometimes, but she's

Olivia: anything.

LUCATI: muted me and I'm like, I get it. You, we understand. All right. I

Olivia: Yeah.

LUCATI: know you don't want to see my shit all the time.

Olivia: That's so

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: funny. Well, I mean, I think she shares a lot of the same opinions too.

LUCATI: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Olivia: She's very vocal about what she cares about. I interviewed

LUCATI: Right.

Olivia: her at EDC Orlando when I was working with Insomniac and

LUCATI: Awesome.

Olivia: I talked to her about that. I was like, her and Jay, where I was interviewing them at the same time, I'm like, you guys stand up for what you believe in and

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: it's great. And they're like, yeah, why wouldn't we?

LUCATI: 100%.

Olivia: But that's funny.

LUCATI: She's

Olivia: Well,

LUCATI: a good

Olivia: I'm...

LUCATI: friend of mine too, so I hope she doesn't actually get mad. Yeah, yeah,

Olivia: I

LUCATI: yeah.

Olivia: figured

LUCATI: Ha ha

Olivia: you

LUCATI: ha.

Olivia: wouldn't say that about somebody who's like your fucking nemesis. Well, this has been so fun. I could literally talk to you for like hours and hours.

LUCATI: Same, same. I'm

Olivia: This

LUCATI: having fun.

Olivia: is such a great conversation. Leave us with something. Leave the fans with something like it could be something you thought about this week or a mantra you live by.

LUCATI: Sure. So I'll use my real life as an example. Let's see here. It's really hard to be artistic. It's really hard to be, to make your art your job because at a certain point it feels like a job and that sucks. And no one tells you that. And it's really hard to give yourself a break and kind of let yourself have a bad day in the studio or what have you and not let it tear you apart, you know? So some... some sage advice I would say is try to detach yourself from the art that you make because it is you in a sense but it's not you you. It's not the person that walks around and has the feelings. It was a moment in time and it's in your sound cloud there it lives. So get out of your own way. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to have a bad day. Talk to your friends. There's people that love you. Yeah, I think you gotta take care of yourself in this world because if you don't, I don't think anyone else will. So,

Olivia: That's real.

LUCATI: yeah.

Olivia: That's really real. Well, thank you so, so much. This was so fun and I'd love to have you back. I feel like

LUCATI: Yeah.

Olivia: I need to do check-ins. I need to like give it like three months worth of tweets and then check back in because there's just too much good content out there.

LUCATI: That's like two days, dude. Three months

Olivia: I know.

LUCATI: worth. No, it was so nice to meet you. Thanks for having me. I had fun.